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    Various Topic Postings From Forums

    Various posting topics - by Ray Delaney ( Brocstock Staffords)

    Southern. Athletic. Canine. Society

    I would have been more convinced if the dog was an actual badger dog rather than one that looked like one.
    I really don't know how to help you there, but if you've seen any of Willies dogs, as I have already stated, all of Willies dogs were show stock, his goal was to produce a great looking dog by the KC standards but, dogs that had the desire to do what they were bred for, it's as simple as that, the ones that didn't come up to par regarding KC standards, were either held back and given a bit more time to develop and take another look at them in a few months time, or if any of the pups had any glaring faults from a KC stand point, then these pups were the first to got, most of the time they were given to family members or friends because Willie still wanted to keep his hands on the dogs he bred close to him and also, if he wanted to take the dog out on a badger run, he always knew where they were, and when he was tapped out on family and friends he would try and place the dogs in homes that would work them, friends of friends etc..

    This also opens up a huge can of worms, because you've got to remember that a majority of the Stafford lads back then, had the same very goal as did Willie, to produce a set type of dog (KC Standards) but with the heart to do what they had originally been bred for, and to get the equal balance of bull and terrier just right was, as in any other breed hard thing to produce that so called perfect type. So if you were a fan of the staff breed back then, you knew what type of dog was winning and what type of dog you had to produce. Like being in any breed and being at the top of your game, Willie had the dogs that were kicking ass in the show rings and to top that, because he was a man that believed that a dog should be able to do what he was bred for, he badgered them and badgered them really well... so it didn't matter whether you were Willie Delaney or anyone for that matter, who was at the top of their game, it set the pace and even harder to accomplish but it didn't stop them from trying, there were many men at the shows, who were also at the badger trials, playing the game, all friends, but in the back of their minds out to prove who had the better dog of the day, just how it should be. the stories are endless on how they got to shows, on how they got to certain trials around the country, many of them traveled together. Then it became a rivalry kind of thing, the Dublin lads and their dogs going to say county Cork or county Limerick etc, the lads in there own counties also hard their own top men, so as you can imagine Willie at the top of his game was not welcome at many of the trials, because the fact is, many of them felt intimidated because you can bet your bottom dollar, if Willie is traveling to any major badger trail... he's not traveling to loose or with un-tested dogs.

    Now getting back to your comment.... that was all just one are of the Staff game, remember, a majority, I can't emphasis this enough, a majority of the Staff fancy were Show enthusiasts first, but not just have a looker but one that could hold his own in the ring and do what he was bred to do. Now in saying that, you also had another group of Staff enthusiasts, these lads, like any other enthusiasts, loved the breed of dog, but looks and type set were not at the top of their list, all they cared about was, can the dog pull or kill a badger, and "Dog" these are the type of Staffs that you are referring to, that looked more like a badger dog than the KC type..... these lads, many of them were also great friends with the KC group of Staff enthusiasts, call it what you like, the great divide or whatever, the fact is, there were a number of different groups of breed enthusiasts in Ireland, (KC and Badger) (Badger) and (Gamebred) so again "Dog" when you are referring to type, the dogs you are referring were, I'm sure from the Badger or Gamebred group, but the fact is, the majority went to the (KC and Badger enthusiasts)

    I think this post will, or should give you a better idea as to the confusion of the different types, another thing that needs to be mentioned that there is no question about it, Brindle Devil was the dog to have in your line, for either type and gameness, with many of the various groups using him over their bitches, so lets think about this for a minute, if you have a bitch from KC background mated to Brindle Devil, chances are your going to get a majority of the pups that will reflect the show background type of dog.. on the other hand if you take a bitch that absolutely has no KC points or standards, of course the are going to be extremely varied in type and look nothing like the KC type of dog, but for the Badger group, this type of dog would be perfect for what they want and need to take badger and so on.. but it must be also noted that many of the badger dogs that were bred just for badger and by the badger groups, when they came to the major trails, many of them couldn't come close to the KC type of dog, this is not a personal opinion but a fact, just look at the dogs from, Willie Delaney, Tommy Connell, and his dog "Duke of Rubycon" Bobby Watts, and Kerry King, Ban Ri, Battling Beauty, Billy Rickard, John Barrett, Edward Byrnes, Billy Bell etc... some real cracking KC show and badger dogs, the absolute best in the country.

    I'm more than willing to concede that dogs of that type may well have been used and been very good at that trial but it's not a type I ever want to own or admire. I think it's an exaggerated, overdone, characature of a dog. I'm sure a dog of less disabling dimensions could have done the job just as well.

    Well I mean, that's a given, your into that athletic type and that's why you in this particlklur forum board, so of course your not going to give the KC type dog the time of day, because what appeals to you is your own type, and that's great as I say to each his own, you can't really compare or match up dogs from their own respective groups, whether weight pulling, KC or Badgering they are all different types, horses for courses..

    you may be right about the dog in the picture but I will never think of that dog as "cracking","excellent","one of the best dogs I've ever seen" and it is certainly not an ambassador of the breed. In my eyes it's everything a Stafford should not be.
    Again your right, you wouldn't see this dog in the same light as myself because your not a KC type enthusiast, but being that you are into weight pulling you might know a good little Stafford bitch called" Red Lady of Samantha" a 40-41lb bitch, pulling in the 580's to 590's, she was a nice bitch out of (Red Tiger x Sally of Delaney) and if you look at her, she is very close to the old head type, a nice bitch and one that I'm sure you would appreciate because she's a Staff within your group type..... so ya know, to each his own, but you can't compare or square off dogs from their different types, as I say horses for courses..

    The Stafford is a mix of Bull and Terrier and that dog is (if you'll excuse the pun) all Bull.
    The KC enthusiasts we wouldn't call it all bull, but would call it "Over Done" sam thing really but from a KC's point of view he's not over done, and I have no doubts if you want to see the terrier in him, just put a badger in front of him and you'll soon see the terrier in him.

    You know, the KC type dogs are not perfect, not even close but we try, there are many faults within the KC breed and that would be the chronic breathing problems, alleviating some of the bull, would help, being that alot of the more bull type Staffs carry this problem...so I can see where you would think, he's a frog, turtle etc... but in the KC world.... for sure considered a great looking dog for the standard.

    Hope all of this helps... you weight pulling fans and also the apbt lads..... I have quite a bit of information in that area also but one at a time...

    All the best.....

    Ray

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    Article by
    Ray Delaney



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    If you have a photograph of your Hunting Dog(s), or maybe an article you would like to have submitted, email me and I will include it here on the site for you and you will also receive full creditability ... info@huntingdawgs.com
       

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